Young driver - extra skills tuition etc.

The Dreamer

Looking for recommendations, for courses to improve car handling, driving skills in general, skid training, high speed handling etc. Preferably in the NorthEast.

I’ve done a day of Ginetta G20 driving at Croft many years ago, but it didn’t really teach me anything, it was more of a ‘taster’.

My lad starts driving next week, and we’ve already bought him his first car - something a bit ‘left-field’, a Honda CRZ-GT (the GT is purely equipment level fit, nothing extra sporty about it)! But still, a 1.5l engine with an electric motor for a ‘little extra’ when called upon, is more than most youngsters get to cut their teeth on nowadays.

Now, I’ve been driving it around for the last month to check, and iron out, any niggles that might have been present (there are none), but it has surprised me performance wise.

It’s no sports car, but like many Hondas, wind her up, and she changes personality entirely, she lifts her skirts and fairly shifts - encouraging somewhat ‘spirited’ driving!

This is all well and good, but I’m about to let my 17 year old lad loose in this, and I think it’d be a good idea to a. equip him with a skill set that will allow him to handle a car like this safely, and b. take it to the track, rather than letting his testosterone get the better of him on Her Majesty’s Highways!

So, the question really is, what courses would you recommend a young driver do, and where? I want him to have fun, push a car to the edge (and beyond) - but also develop skills that are relevant, and can be applied to, highway driving. You never know, I might want to join in too!

Hope that makes sense.

djbsom

Hi. I think you're making a big mistake.
If I've understood your post correctly, your son is starting driving lessons soon and you've bought him a Honda CRZ.?
Based on that assumption I'll be straight with you and tell you I firmly believe you need to sell the Honda and replace it with something normal and 'safe' like a Clio, Corsa or fiesta. Something with a small engine, low insurance group (not just because of the cost), low performance and low 'macho' appeal. I refuse to believe I'd need to explain that concept but I will if you ask.
Then, you need to let the the instructor start him from scratch. No "I'll just start him off on quiet roads to teach him the basics" because that poor start will cost time and money for the instructor to correct.
Then, once the instructor has covered the estop (I do that after independent driving has been achieved and before starting the manoeuvres) you should start letting your boy have practice with you in his own car. That is practicing the systems his instructor has given him, not 'teaching' him to signal around parked cars, going down through the gearbox sequentially to stop as we used to decades ago etc. Your job is to reinforce the up to date safe practices you're paying the professional to deliver, not to confuse your son.
Then, once he's passed the test, you should enrol him with the institute of advanced motorists or rospa to encourage him to improve the standard of his driving so that he hopefully stays safe and lives long enough to return the favour to his own son/ daughter.
These organisations usually have activities that encourage various sporty driving hobbies such as track days and skid pan courses. My local IAM group has access to the South Wales police driving school in Bridgend which is probably why I'm still alive to pass on advanced driving skills to today's young Damon hill wannabees.
Seriously, I don't mean to be offensive but you need to think through exactly how to encourage your son to drive properly and giving him a CRV is the wrong message.

un1eash

It depends more on the attitude of the driver then it does on what car they drive. I fully plan on making my kids pay for there own car and insurance like I had too so they fully appreciate the cost and responsibility of driving.

CRZ sounds like a great first car, I wouldn't want to be driving one of these little Aygo style cars as I find them dangerously under powered and lacking any grip.

djbsom

Paying for your own car definitely makes a difference. My son had his first three cars given to him and they all got damaged. He then ordered and paid for a Megane and that car was genuinely looked after.

noiseboy72

A friend of mine runs precision driving course and lives in Darlington. His "Stunt Drivers" course is great fun and covers things like skid control, J turns, hand brake turns and precision driving. Driving Experiences that will Take Your Breath Away : Paul Swift Precision Driving

Of course, teaching a young lad how to do J turns might not be the best idea...

It's a shame you've missed Ford's annual free driver training - You are being redirected... They run a free half day session for young drivers and cover skid control, distraction driving and a range of other skills. There's some interesting resources on their website and the programme will be back next year.

RBZ5416

I'd agree completely with @djbsom. Give him a quick car he'll drive it quickly. Teach him to drive it quickly & he'll just go faster still. "Safe" in the knowledge he's been trained.

Safety aside, there's also the issue of accruing six points in the first two years automatically revoking his licence.

IronGiant

My first car was a 2 litre Ford Capri, and I'm still here to pass on my "skills" to the next generation.    While I agree that the CRZ perhaps wasn't the best choice of a first car, can you disable the "battery boost" to slow it down a bit?

noiseboy72

Different times... I had a MKII 1.6 Escort which I soon traded for a Saab 99 Turbo. 150  BHP and the handling of a boat!! I only binned it once in 4 years and didn't rack up any points, but looking back at a few near misses I had things could have been very different!

My daughters are of that age and we are looking at a car for them to use. Thinking small Peugeot or similar. Something cheaper to insure and easy to fix when they forget to check the oil, water, tyres, washer bottle etc...

Dony

I bought a 1L VW Polo that will be shared between my wife and my 17yr old. My son has been taking lessons since the summer and a couple of weeks ago passed his theory, and will hopefully be going for his test in the next 3 or 4 weeks.
I took him out once in the Polo, but ever since he just wants to drive the instructors car until he has his full licence. He's happy for now just sitting in the Polo listening to the radio

The Dreamer

Hi again guys,

And many thanks for the honest appraisals!

Well selling the CRZ isn’t going to happen, though I appreciate why the advice was given. One of the main reasons behind getting it is the fact that it’s (in practical terms) a 2 seater, but with the insurance costs of a 4 seater (it has two seats in the back, but they’re for kids only - I don’t fit - and funnily enough, in the American market, the rear seats aren’t there)! My reasoning behind wanting him in a two seater is to prevent ‘peer pressure’ from his ‘mates’ egging him on - the cause of at least two of my prangs in my youth, if he can’t fit mates in the back that issue is a non-event.

Speaking to the two lads across the track from us that are relatively new drivers, they have said that the black boxes fitted for insurance purposes for the first year, most definitely reigned them in from speeding and generally being reckless, and Thomas will have one fitted to the CRZ (we’ve also already fitted a camera, and are going to fit another internal one too, as they’re useful debriefing aids, and it’s also been shown that people tend to drive more sensibly if they know they’re being monitored)!

Having said that, attitude was mentioned, and both of these lads and my own son, I’d actually trust to be far more level headed than I was as a kid.

FWIW, in the case of my own son, he’s a qualified sailing instructor, race coach, power boat driver, first aider, and plays piano, currently doing grade 8. So what has that got to do with driving?

Directly? Absolutely nothing - but indirectly, you don’t do any of the above without commitment and a certain level of maturity. He seems to be applying himself to the practice of driving a car in the same methodical way that he approaches his other skills - in short, I trust him. I don’t think my parents would ever have said that about me at his age - if ever! Basically, and thankfully, he seems to have inherited more of mum’s genes than mine! (I know we all think the sunshine shines from our kid’s arses, but I’m quite serious wrt him).

So, other comments (sorry, difficult to go back and forth selecting quotes, I’m on the iFad)....

I agree with not buying a lesser car like the Aygo, Suzuki Swift etc. There’s absolutely nothing to them - and if he does have an ‘off’, I’d rather the car take the hit, than him. Also, the CRZ is chock full of safety tech wizardry, lots of TLAs that lesser cars lack, and enough airbags to float the Titanic!

As far as de-tuning the car - well actually yes. The car has 3 buttons, ECO, Normal, and Sport. In Sport, the steering weights up, with less assistance being generated from the power steering system, and the battery is used more aggressively during acceleration, and there is no ‘change up/down now’ indicator on the dash. In Normal, it drives like any other small car, with light steering and reasonable throttle response. And in Eco, the throttle response is neutered somewhat, with the battery more aggressively charged when you back off and the Start/Stop system engages more enthusiastically, it drives like an asthmatic Polo - I can, and probably will, change the settings, so the default is Eco mode; and if I really feel it’s necessary, I could disconnect the back of the ‘Sport’ switch!

As far as who is teaching him to drive - it’ll be the instructor, not me. I absolutely believe in the value of good instruction - which is why I posed the question in the first place. I’m only going to be there to let him practice what he’s been taught, not to impart ‘my way’ of doing things to him. Thomas himself knows the value of good instruction, and has his fair share of instruction doing his hobbies, both good and bad, and has fairly strong opinions on those that give poor instruction, particularly since he started teaching others himself! In my own career, I live fairly constantly under an ‘instructional umbrella’, and indeed was an instructor myself, albeit in a different arena. So yes, I’m definitely going to let the professionals do their job - I just need to find the right professionals!

The IAM is already something we’re looking at, I do need to chat to them about what our area can offer; but something along the lines of a Roadcraft course would most definitely be on the agenda.

I appreciate the concerns of give a kid a fast car and teach him to drive fast, and he will then do so with a ‘false confidence’ etc. But if a kid, or anyone, is taken with ‘driving fast’, they’re going to do so in whatever car they’re in - and in many ways it’s far safer to be in a car that’s built for it, with decent tyres, brakes, etc. than in some Aygo that you’ve wound up to a ridiculous speed. I don’t have a problem with anyone driving at speed (note, not speeding), as long as they’re doing it in a controlled manner at an appropriate time - it used to be known as ‘making progress’ under Roadcraft I believe, and is something I’d rather he was taught, than learn by trial and error!

Anyway, there we are. Thanks for the recommendation of the Ford program, and Paul Swift, I’ll take a look.

Cheers all.