The rise of socialism

Goooner

I would encourage anyone to do what makes them happy. If hard work makes someone happy, do it. If exploiting people would make someone happy, do it. If watching j Kyle all day while drinking beer makes someone happy, then do it.  If living rough makes someone happy then do it.  Basically doing what makes you happy should come first and foremost

The American system where wealth acquisition is first and foremost. Where wealth acquisition is the be all and end all is daft imo

The way we measure success in society is totally backward imo. Instead of measuring society success by how much there is, it should be done by how few. So not how many houses you own or cars you drive, but how few people are unhappy, how few are ill or how few Don't have a roof over their head. That's the true measure of success.

Blitzkrieg

That does annoy the hell out of me.

Blooming hypocrites, many of them.

Spouting on about our failed public services, how we must help the poor, blah blah blah, etc etc.

Whilst, at the same time, many of those rich celebs, BBC etc etc, go to great lengths to protect their wealth with tax avoidance vehicles (which i've no problem with since avoidance is not a crime).

It's obvious that they're not happy paying out at current PAYE levels of taxes, let alone the taxes they would pay under a Corbyn/socialist government(s).

Blitzkrieg

Sounds good to me.

Who do I see about paying my bills while I give up my job so I can sit at home all day playing guitar and Xbox and watching tv?

Maybe I'll set up a justgiving page

Enki

Plenty do it

Bl4ckGryph0n

So if the truly successful weren't there to begin with who would all those employees be working for?

Bl4ckGryph0n

Not sure how socialism will help my wage stagnation - by all account it would make it worse.
Not sure how socialism will help reduce costs in housing - from what I've seen I'll be £11k worse off each and every year just to live in my own home that is paid for from already taxed money.
Fuel/Transport - As long as I can keep my Mercedes AMG I'll be happy
Food - It is so cheap as it is, what is socialism going to do about it? If anything the prices should go up to give farmers a fairer price for their produce.
The wealthiest 1% getting richer by fantastic amounts - damn, I'm in the 1% category, never noticed that. I think you may be a factor 100 out there...And under socialism that will be exactly the same, the top of the pyramid as someone said will live handsomely...

And so on ...

Toko Black

That's more a belief than a real world implementation - because we may better ourselves, but it doesn't automatically always come with bettering those around us, in fact it can have the adverse effect.

Toko Black

I'm not sure how it can have an adverse effect.

If I do well, my family benefit.

My neighbors are not affected at all by how well I do.

The economy is not a zero sum game. If I do well it doesn't follow that someone else suffers to pay for it.

Bl4ckGryph0n

Firstly, it can and often is a zero sum game - the stock market, trading, or any other buying and selling, any profit over and above what most people consider a fair recompence for the value you added is a loss to someone else.

If you get a tradesman round to do a job and you bargain him right down, he is potentially loosing income while you are gaining a service for less than market value - and the same works in reverse, if he over prices and you pay it, you get less for your money.
There is a REAL ultimate value of many things in terms of time effort and costs balanced against every other job and product, it's just that we never really see it or calculate it.
It gets lost in advertising, salesmanship, need, lack of knowledge or context.

Further more, if you reduce the tax burdens and restrictions on corporations and the wealthiest, according to some that will mean economic growth, job creation and bringing others up with them.
However, studies tend to show that increasing the wealth share of the richest causes a loss in GDP, while an increase in the wealth share of the poorest increases GDP.
For too long we've be sold on the trickle down economics of the Reagan era ..... and it's a load of rubbish.

EarthRod

Who mentioned trickle down?

The economy is NOT a zero sum game.

That doesn't mean that some elements such as the stock market people won't lose.

If I get a tradesman round, it's up to us to negotiate a price. If what I'm prepared to offer is not sufficient for him, he'll not get my business. This doesn't imply anyone has lost or won.

Reducing the tax on business... Not sure where I mentioned it in this post. But seeing as it's been brought up. Since 2010 corporation tax has been cut, the amount raised gone up and almost 3m new jobs created by those lesser-taxed companies. It may all be a massive coincidence, but just maybe lower taxes do spur on economic activity. It's beyond dispute that high taxes do suppress it.

I'm going to give an example. Richard Branson. I don't much like him, but he's an example of someone who has done well and built businesses employing many people. Isn't that a good thing?