Climate change discussion thread

johntheexpat

Isn't this thread about adverse weather?

A link showing that some forms of adverse weather are not increasing helps demonstrate that there is no overall pattern of more and more adverse weather.

Especially when more hurricanes has often been a key claimed impact of climate change.

sidicks

In effect, its about record breaking weather, or it was initially.  One of the symptoms of the predicted climate change is that there would be more extreme weather.  A temperature rise of 0.5 or 1C wouldn't really raise any eyebrows, but the change in climate that accompanies that, along with the predicted more extreme events, would provide further evidence for those who want it.

But its all about climate change, ultimately.  And all Sidicks did was post a link that shows (apparently) that one major weather feature is changing.  And then claims that showing the weather is changing is evidence against climate change.  
So two things need to be clarified.  How does "proof" of a weather change (ie a discernible drop in the number of hurricanes)  disprove "Climate Change"
and secondly, the graph is unreadable so that needs to be clarified as well, svp.

gibbsy

So, let's follow the logic:

According to you:

And yet, according to the data, there has actually been less extreme weather in the form of hurricanes.

And somehow you deem that this supports the theory of man made climate change?

Presumably you'd argue that increased hurricane activity would also provide evidence to support man-made climate change....



Back in 2000, UEA's Dr Viner (One of the most Experienced International Climate Change Consultants: Science, Impacts, Adaptation and Mitigation said "Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives."

sidicks

People seem to forget that this is January and unless I'm very much mistaken January in the northern hemisphere is the depth of winter. In winter we get snow.

Prior to 2009 we had had a number of mild winters. The prediction was that the summers were going to turn into baking hot days and endless BBQs. Got that one wrong. Now it's going to be extremely wet summers. Let's wait and see. I've lived through plenty of wet summers, hot summers, mild winters and snow events.

There have been plenty of similar weather events throughout the centuries. Roman times saw the summers warm enough to grow grapes for wine as far north as Hadrian's Wall. Yet Georgian Britain saw the Thames freeze over.

How do we know how much or how little the Artic sea ice melted or grew. Man hardly went there at all until the mid 20th century. Nature will do what nature does best. Turn on you when you least expect it.

Did I just agree with Sidicks?

gibbsy

Just need to convince you on economics now....!

johntheexpat

Steady on good boy. Steady on.

johntheexpat

You liike playing with words.

At the moment we have hurricanes.  On a scale of say one to ten, we are currently at five.  So not hurricanes all the time, but we don't have a situation were there are no hurricanes.

So if one extreme of this scale is ten (hurricanes all the time) then the other extreme on this scale is zero, ie no hurricanes.

So we have moved from the normal towards one of the extremes.

I'm sorry I'm not using extreme in the Daily Mail sense, but in a much more scientific sense.  As you well know.

Unless of course you have another word to use for the variation away from 'normal' to one of the extremes.

here we go:

extreme: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

• Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: the extreme edge of the field.
• Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: extreme pleasure; extreme pain.


So a record breaking weather event must be extreme, by definition, it is the most/highest/wettest whatever etc.

gibbsy

Well, thats a nice discussion about the weather.  Not a discussion about the climate.

sidicks

I always thought that climate drove the weather. 'Climate change will lead to more extreme weather events', isn't that what the headlines have stated throughout our wet summer? Are you saying that the two aren't naturally alligned?

All I'm saying is that I'm into my seventh decade and the weather seems much the same as it was in my first, so the climate of the UK hasn't changed much, if at all..............it's still s**t.

johntheexpat

Of course that assumes that there is a 'normal' position rather than the more rationale explanation that the climate is constantly changing, hence the identification in previous posts that our climate used to be much hotter (when grapes were commonly grown) and much colder (when the Thames used to freeze over).

Trying to suggest that the previous numbers of hurricanes were 'normal' and the current number is not is simply ridiculous.