Turntable upgrade necessity (?)

BarKohba

Hello People

I've got a question that i've had on my mind for a while.

I got into vinyl half a year ago, when I got my hi-fi setup.

It consists of the following: Triangle Quartet Genese speakers, Yamaha A-S2100 integrated amplifier, Yamaha CD-S-700 CD Player, Yamaha WXC-50 DAC/Streamer and Sony PS-HX500 turntable with upgraded Goldring E3 cartridge.

On the "analogue" side, I've done some serious calibrating on both the Turntable and the Cartridge, and also upgraded the belt. As it stands, I've got a wow/flutter of 0.09, , and a speed deviation of  0.11% (using the WOW flutter Android app).

I'm VERY pleased with the sound. When compared to TIDAL or CD, i've got a few on both formats - Marvin Gaye What's Going On, Barry White Just another way to say I love you, Daft Punk Random Access Memories, to name a few, and i'm split 50/50. Some sound better on CD, some on Vinyl.

As for phono pre-amp, I'm using the discreet in-built one in the Yamaha A-S2100. I'm doing so after reading quite a few audiphile reviews on the amp, and all of them say basically the same thing about the phono stage - it's the equivalent of a 500 USD stand alone piece.

Now, I'm not really interested in upgrading the phono preamp for convinence, and the turntable seems pretty solid post calibration with all the specs listed above, especially for the price.

A question thus arises: Is there ANY point in spending 1.5-3K USD on a new turntable ? Will I get a massive upgrade (considering my TT without the cartridge costs 500 USD)?

Or would it rather be worth it, considering the low flutter and wow and variation in speed, to spend my money on a much better cartridge?

Your input would be greatly appreciated

Hawklord

The Sony appears to be a good entry level turntable but is limited on what you can do to improve the sound. I believe you have probably done everything you can to improve it's performance already.
I have the baby version of your Yamaha the AS-1100 which as you state is highly thought of as both an amp and phono stage.

I was in a similar position to you a few months ago and decided to bite the bullet and try to get the best sound I could out of my vinyl and opted to buy the new Rega Planar 8 which seemed to get great reviews and was at a reasonable price for performance imo.
It was a lot of money to spend and some would say that it's silly investing so much in an old technology but I like the ritual of playing vinyl and prefer the sound over CD/streaming.

The change going from my Thoren's TD-203 to the Planar was night and day (and so it should be it's 2-3 times the cost). The Rega extracts more information from my records and the level of clarity and range is a vast improvement. Turn tables are vibration readers so the more expensive tables have been designed to negate unwanted noise which is very evident in the Rega. I bought mine without a Cartridge as I had a decent MM cart to start with and have upgraded it recently when funds permitted.

I'm happy with my purchase as it allows me to get more enjoyment out of my vinyl hobby but 1.5-$3k will buy you a lot of music in any format. I opted to go for a Turntable at the top of my budget rather than buying something cheaper and having to spend more to improve it (upgradeitis is real). I think I have saved money in the long run.

Rega make good turntables but there are lots to choose from in your price range. Just beware of the law of diminishing returns as with most audiophile equipment.

more information/review of the Rega Planar 8:-

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Rega Research’s Less Is Much More Planar 8 (Plus Exclusive Interview)                                                                                                        Call it “P8” or “Planar 8” but do not call this new Rega turntable “RP8”. That was the previous 8. Despite the obvious superficial Rega similarities the new Planar 8 differs greatly from its predecessor.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                www.analogplanet.com

BarKohba

I've no doubt that a better turntable would be better, but I'm asking whether it's better to, for example, spend 1500 USD on a new turntable, or keep my table, and maybe spend close to that amount on a high-end cartridge?

besides the phono stage, if one has a turntable that has good, low flutter, wow and speed variation figures, and is well designed, wouldn't a cartridge improve the sound the most? As opposed to a better table made from better equipment, or a better arm ?

Hawklord

I would expect a better cart to improve things slightly, but, I would imaging a better table would be the better option for more improvement. Wow and flutter certainly is an important component of good reproduction but more so are the table and arm to overall sound quality imo.

By all means buy a better cart initially to see if you get better results. You can always use this cart on a better turntable should you decide to upgrade.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Why Pay $1,000 for a Turntable?                                                                                                        We asked one of New York's foremost analog audio experts what factors matter most in making a high quality turntable.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gearpatrol.com

dannnielll

You will find two schools of thought. The Vinyl versus Digital . More and more money spent on Vinyl kit will produce improvements but with a law of diminishing returns already in place It ,it is heading towards vanishing point. No one is suggesting that you will not find foustering with Vinyl highly enjoyable in the same way as woodcarving is therapeutic. So different cartridges, different turntables, different shelving, turntable mats , granite countertop etc ,will all produce different effects and will be discernable to your ears,only you can decide how far down this rabbit hole you wish to climb.
While your  CD player is a top of the line model , in CD players, it is not top of the line in spinning silver discs and SACDs will outperform it and Vinyl every time.  I would suggest that the weakest item in your list is the Streamer

dogfonos

Would this (potential) turntable purchase be part of a long-term upgrade plan? If so, go for it. IME, of all the components in a typical music playback system, turntables in particular benefit from spending big (obviously, this only applies to well-designed and engineered turntables, so you still need to choose carefully). That's not to say expensive turntable/arm/cartridge combos trump a decent digital source - to my ears, they don't. Will a high quality turntable give a massive improvement in sound quality? It's a personal perception thing but for me, not 'massive', more 'noticeable'.

However, if you don't see yourself upgrading any other components in the future, I'd aim for a more balanced upgrade approach now.

BarKohba

Yeah, possibly. I have to be honest im pretty happy with it. The ESS9006 dac chip is decent, and more importantly the Musiccast app is something I really enjoy. The CD player is more on the mid-entry level on the yamaha range, but indeed most of the time both Tidal through the streamer and CDs sound better than vinyl, and to my ears absolutely indistinguishable from each other.

Im actually more interested in getting the Yamaha CD-S2100 sacd player. It can work as a dac, it has a pretty high end 32bit ess dac, and the WXC-50 can be connected to it digitally, esentially working only as a streamer, and the cd player doing all the conversion.

gibbsy

If you do get hold of one of these and throw your redbooks at it then I've no doubt it will breath new life into those discs. SACD players seem to be able to get more information out the discs, certainly far better than those entry to med level players. I've just bought a Denon DCD 2500 NE, which mysteriously doesn't have any digital inputs, so no good to you but the detail on redbooks is astounding and SACDs are sublime.

The Yamaha was my other option at this price point but other members on here swayed me towards the Denon.

SickSquirrel

Vinyl is just an expensive faff, and offers nothing over a good digital system, been there done that!

1 on a good SACD player, I would however avoid the Yamaha CD-S2100, I have been told by many different sources I trust that they are unreliable, and I quickly crossed it off my potential purchase list.

Don't get hung up on DAC chips, they make up a very small part of the overall sound, power supplies, analogue stages and clocks are far more important.

Khazul

I know nothing about that turntable, that said a good cartridge can make all the difference.

I also have an A-S2100 - using it with a technics SL-1210M5G (left over from my DJing days) now fitted with an ortofon 2M bronze and the result is very good for me when you have a quality vinyl release to put on it (which seems hard these days with the many poorly made noisey re-releases).

If buying again would probably go with same cartridge and current issue technics 1200 or 1500 deck because I have always liked the technics decks even just for listening use.

TBH if I didnt already have a decent deck and vinyl collection wouldnt bother at all with it and just stick with digital even if some albums only seem to sound 'right' on vinyl for nostalgic reasons