Mini (micro) led latest

lgans316

Another desperate attempt by Samsung...Doubt if they would win.

Samsung clearly lost it with QLEDs so far but maybe they will be adopted by enthusiasts if they get it right.

Livemo

I don't think this is a attempt from samsung, the article has nothing do with them. The interesting thing for me is if the self emitting qled is ready by 2020 I probably won't even bother with mini led

Goldorak

I will be amazed if it is ready in 2020 without you selling your kidney...
Everything I have read points toward 2020 for mini led and 21/22 for micro led at a half descent price
Like we discussed here, implemented well, mini led could be more than enough and at a descent price...

Let’s put some perspective, imagine for a second @Matson tv With 3-4 times more zones (around 1800-2600 if my maths work) and 20.000 mini led...4000 nits

This I believe, is what we may have in jan ces...not bad at all...
Even better if applied to 4k but I doubt it in in 2019

Livemo

Samsungs TV-Zukunft: Q60R, Q70R, Q80R, Q90R, The Window, Super Size TV uvm.

Goldorak

Completely missed this one. Hope new processor is just an ai one in disguise applied to 4k...knowing Samsung and their marketing guys
Just hope the lcd is better and has improved mini led fald.

Livemo

I won't be surprised if samsung doesn't unveil it's full tv lineup at ces. Just like last year. As for mini led I'm not sure, maybe IFA is more realistic. More hype up for QD OLED

Goldorak

They will just show the appetisers
Considering hdmi 2.1 not available befriend March....ifa make more sense

GadgetObsessed

Will mini-LED really make a significant difference to image quality?

Having more dimming zones (up to the thousands) will help reduce the size of blooming areas as each zone will cover a smaller area. Even so the zones still will never exactly match the shape of the bright highlights against a dark background.

Dont get me wrong I am a fan of FALD - I have a Sony 65ZD9 and I really like it. (Although I still get the itch to try an OLED.) I am just wondering if there is a bit too much hype around mini-LED being the ideal display with all the best of OLED and FALD LCD.

The 75ZD9 is supposed to have something like a 1,000 zones. From what I have read the extra zones of the 75ZD9 over the Sony 75XE9405 (which has the same image processor but only 250 zones) makes a rather small difference to image quality. There are other differences e.g. the 75ZD9 has a panel with a faster response times that results in better motion, that probably makes a bigger difference.

So if going from 250 zones to 1,000 makes a marginal difference would it not be similar going from 1,000 to say 4,000 or even 10,000? (To get zones of 1cm square, you would need around 15,000 zones on a 75".)

More zones may also be very expensive. The ZD9 was considerably more expensive than the 75XE9405. How much of this was down to the extra zones is difficult to say. The ZD9's official replacement the ZF9 seems to have the same number of zonesa as the 9405 but has a launch price similar to that of the 9405.

Perhaps smaller zones will mean that individual zones can go brighter, or maybe the overall efficiency will be better so that peak brightness will be higher.

However, contrast will still be dependent to a certain extent upon the native capability of the LCD panel and mini-LED wont solve issues such as screen uniformity or pixel response times.

So I see mini-LED as being a useful step forward but not the giant leap some seem to think it will be.

Goldorak

Good write up.
Nobody said it is a giant leap, in fact, everyone seems to agree it is a “transition” one.
All I can tell you is that:
- the native contrast numbers I have seen are scary and between 50 000:1 to 500 000 :1
- mini led will mean having 10000 to 40000 mini led organised in zones. Nobody explained how each zones is reacting but don’t see the point of having 20000 led if it is to end up with 1200 zones? More brightness ? Hmmmm not good enough. There must be a benefit of grouping but I don’t understand it enough...(unless local dimming can have an impact at led level and not zones. That’s all I can think of.)
- I really believe that more zones x3 or higher versus current with better “PROCESSING” and local dimming algorithm is what will make a big difference..panels response too.

So, back to basics. If you give me a Q9fn and multiply the fald zones by 2-4 and add a better processor and algorithm plus color coverage and panel then I WILL BE HAPPY

BECAUSE I hope this will provide a superb contrast, more refined light control and better hdr when dark and bright are in same picture...that’s all we need considering how nice the result is already.

Is it perfect? Hell NO but that will do until micro led or qled or cledis or (oled  qantum burn in guarantee) is widely available for the entusiast without selling a kidney

Goldorak

                                                                                          @GadgetObsessed you made me work hard tonight. But I struck gold!!!

Found the mother of all research papers about why mini led are a superb “transition” :
- I also discovered that each mini led within a zone can have an indépendant role (hard to understand what but it is there and good enough for me)
- I am very excited now by mini led after reading this...VERY...plus a big headache.
- I attached some pics too

Below is main abstract from the detailed research article :

We analyze the performance of high dynamic range liquid crystal displays (LCDs) using a two-dimensional local dimming mini-LED backlight. The halo effect of such a HDR display system is investigated by both numerical simulation and human visual perception experiment. The halo effect is mainly governed by two factors: intrinsic LCD contrast ratio (CR) and dimming zone number. Based on our results, to suppress the halo effect to indistinguishable level, a LCD with CR≈5000:1 requires about 200 local dimming zones, while for a LCD with CR≈2000:1 the required dimming zone number is over 3000. Our model provides useful guidelines to optimize the mini-LED backlit LCDs for achieving dynamic contrast ratio comparable to organic LED displays.

Full research paper (aspirin, Ibuprofen needed):
(PDF) High dynamic range liquid crystal displays with a mini-LED backlight