Advice on which video camera pack most punch

theMusicMan

Ok folks, thought I'd ask the experts.

I am not new to photography, but am very new to making and recording videos.  I have a budget of maybe around £400 to start out, and am considering something like the Sony a6000 or the Panasonic GX80 (GX85 in USA). I have seen a few second hand items for sale within this range but wanted to get expert opinion before I decide to dish the cash.

My priorities are;
wanting to make and record films over capturing photographs (I have an existing DSLR for photography) 1080p at highest res rather than 4kSome form of slo-mo capability, maybe 60fps at 1080not fixed lenssmall enough to fit on Zhiyun Crane-m (I have the Zhiyun Smooth4 and Hohem iSteadyPro)good range of second hand lensesSo... are these the only two cameras systems I should be looking at or are there others I should also consider?  I have looked at and have discounted the Canon M100 series, and the Olympus EM/OM M43 series.

Would very much appreciate your advice, and any pointers please.
Thanks

Terfyn

If you are interested in video, Why are you looking at a DSLR or bridge camera? I suggest you go for a video camcorder from the "big three" Canon, Panasonic or Sony.
You say "not fixed lens" but basically most camcorders have a wide range on their zooms and electronic enhancement beyond the optical zoom range. Example: my camcorder has an optical zoom of 20x but an enhanced zoom to 50x without any degradation.
Most cams have a decent wide angle (mine is 29.5mm) which can be "widened" using an add on lens. (to about 16mm)
Apart from your Camera Shop in Newport, Bristol Cameras or Camarthen Camera Centre may be of use. (my suggestion would be a Panasonic HC-V770 at £389)

12harry

Good advice Terfyn, but maybe themusicman has a fear of Camcorders ... perhaps that a "cheaper one" won't look the part?

However, with a DSLR small budget the kit lens is likely to be the only one in use - whereas the camcorder model mentioned is fully functioning and unless you are filming bird-wildlife, or Lions in Africa (say) - then the Zoom is quite good enough - and any equally long-lens from the big-3 is likely to be much more than the Budget, just on its own.
Where the camcorder scores is in additional "Features" - and in the Audio department - this is where many DSLRs and mirrorless are quite bad - and I suspect that Budget won't provide a mic-input jack, let alone headphone monitoring.
Musicman may have a SD-recorder, but we've not been told...

Also, we don't know "what" he plans to be filming & importantly "who" the audience is....

Maybe with that crane he is set on making Cinematic films; with lots of shallow DoF ( we don't know), and this is why the kit-lens is considered OK . . .  However, if he's serious in film-making then a budget camera is unlikely to be satisfactory - butwhatdoIknow?

Hope that helps....  Cheers.

theMusicMan

Thanks for the informative replies both, much appreciated.  Not sure on how some of the comments were meant to be perceived aka "cheaper one not looking the part"!!!  I have never been in the least bothered about how my kit looks.  Neither have I ever been a pixel peeper or gear snob. So I have no idea why you choose to be a little judgemental and make that comment.

Anyways... to answer some of your queries...

One of the main reasons I wanted to remain with a photo/video camera rather than move to a pure video camera, was in case I wanted to continue with my photography.  Though still working well, my kit as it is now is several years old and it may also be about time that I considered reinvesting in some new photo/video gear.   In no way have I surpassed the ability of my current DSLR to produce decent images. Its performance when compared to some of the latest offerings, especially in terms of ISO performance and capturing 1080p video is lagging way behind what even these budget to mid-range small form factor cameras I am looking at now are able to offer - especially in the video space.

Yes, I have filmed plenty of bird wildlife and also, would you believe, lions in Africa - using my camera (even my iPhone) coupled with my superb Opticron scope which is kitted with a superb high-def lens.  However, this isn't what I need to be filming going forward.

The 'why' I want to do this (though this wasn't specifically asked) is primarily for myself and my daughter.  I tend to keep myself pretty well occupied with all manner of things, and with several national diplomas, nearly 2 degrees and a post grad DBA, I have a healthy appetite for learning.  I enjoy the academic and practical aspects of learning - I have done amateur photography for many many years and now I am happy to learn about the art of video making et al.

As for the 'who' my audience is - well I am not too bothered about building an audience, and am more inclined to record things for myself/family to view.  I may do some form of YouTube channel as I document my learning process in video, and my daughter may join me in this process too. Who knows.

The 'what' I want to film - well this is likely to be general adventures and travels with my grandchildren, places I visit, countries I visit, and generally to help my daughter as she embarks on her Performing Arts career.

I am sure if this foray into video turns into more of a longer term thing, then I am likely to want to upgrade my video making equipment.  The low budget I have available is self imposed so as to allow me a taster beyond which my current DSLR will allow.

Still considering the GX80 and a6000 - tending more towards the Sony at the moment.

Terfyn

"Horses for courses" comes to mind.
A quote from a critique of the Sony:- Limited video recording time due to thermal overheat, particularly in 60p mode.
This is a particular problem that has been found on some stills cameras.
I sometimes use my Panasonic for still shots and I does rather well but I also use my Olympus E-10 which still performs well despite its age.
The HC-V770 which I suggested is the later model to my 750 so I know it will perform better than the Sony you are considering because it is designed to do the job. The Sony is probably a brilliant camera for still photography but please consider the negative points before committing yourself. The current range of video cameras have excellent OIS built in so removing the need for external stabilisation such as a Zhiyun.

You will eventually need to invest in a video editor in order to transfer your raw footage from a series of shots to a slick presentation (obviously you can watch directly from the camera using the built in HDMI connector) but the advantage of adding voiceover, music, cutaways and effects makes a VE very desirable. For example my own setup is geared to produce both a SD DVD for family consumption and a HD version on a SD card for my Blu-Ray player. (This is probably as good as I can get without going 4K)

noiseboy72

I would look at the Blackmagic  camera range. Interchangeable lenses, plenty of accessories and really good image quality.

The only thing they don't have is slo-mo, so if this is of importance, maybe look elsewhere.

Products | Blackmagic Design

Terfyn

Beautiful cameras and the small one is approaching MusicMan's original budget. Looks like the lens mount takes Canon lenses, this may be an additional cost.

To be fair, I consider the time lapse and the slo-mo options on the 770 to be "nice to have". I have filmed with the slo-mo option a number of times (1/2 speed and (in camera conversion) 1/4 speed) but not used time lapse yet.

12harry

Thermal issues are the curse of large-sensor cameras, whereas camcorders (generally) do not have this issue. Also, it's my understanding most camcorders offer "Stills" at reasonable pixel-count - my own Sony CX410 is 8.9Mpx and whilst this is bettered by many newer camcorders you have to include the Zoom multiplier effect.....  A Stills camera with a Zoom limit of 52mm ( typical of modest Kit-Zooms), compared with my CX410 at its limit ( ~800mm equiv), means that no cropping should be necessary.
Back to OP's need:
BlackMagic Cinema cameras with Canon-lens - mighty expensive  - and s/h I see body-only about £450 - hardly what OP specified.... FWIW I don't think the BMPC is really a good practical camera for point and shoot, rather it's intended to offer a second-rig to Pros ( Aspiring?), when "on set"  - since setting up a normal BM is approaching an half hour before you can get a decent recording. Their audio performance is poor from the minor experience I've witnessed and as the LCD is fixed, you probably need a Liliput-style monitor ( ~£120)...
The weight ( esp. their bigger camera plus Rig) is yet another issue to consider.
Batteries are another hazard; as folks usually use the pro-style Sony batteries, which are a default item for both Cameras and Lights. IMHO BM=Cost Cost

Thanks theMusicMan; - you had originally omitted significant details, so pardon me if I guessed incorrectly. However, I'm a little confused by your dual-wish to "up" the stills ability while having a movie-tool to learn on....
Perhaps this is what I did some years back.... bought a Sony NEX5 with interchangeable Kit zoom 18-52 and a pancake 16mm ( rarely used ), with the idea of using an adaptor to fit my Nikon SLR lenses . . . but whilst the sound quality was good, the zoom range left a lot to be desired. Only once do I remember the camera stopping due to sensor temperature.... not excessive weather and it hasn't been repeated. I used it a lot for 1080 HD although continuing to use its 14Mpx APSC sensor for digital Stills.
However, the CX410 with so many video-features   mic-in headphone out is a useful tool. Yet I have almost never used the short-wired Remote. In SloMo terms it's excellent, for a few seconds, processed to 11 Sec - ( slowed  ~5x ), which can be stretched in Edit a further 4....giving 25x5 x4 ( ~500fps).... but SloMo isn't that useful IMHO, although for "Sporting" events it could be.

cheers

wuzzo

Hello chaps-   I'm earwigging this thread as I'm about to buy a camcorder for making YouTube videos for myself and possibly other musicians too.
I'd like high definition, very good audio quality and a remote control function would help me when I'm recording myself.  
I'll go up to £750 for a camcorder that will help turn me into a professional      but the less I have to spend the better, of course.   
As always, my money is burning a hole in my pocket-  so any advice now will be valuable .

Terfyn

I am notorious for pushing Panasonic so I will try to keep my answer general. (Not before time! )
First High Definition is easier to edit, with average computers, than 4K. (This will change with time)

Second there are now ways to get good audio quality, for example Tascam and Zoom audio recorders.

Third many cameras have an App for your Smartphone which will:- 1) control the camera's start/stop and the Zoom. 2) Give you a picture of what the camera sees. 3) (In my case) Control a pan/tilt camera head to aim the camera at the subject.

Re the audio:- I use a Tascam DR-60D MkII audio recorder. Amongst its features, it will supply an audio feed to your camera's "mic in" socket that will give you a sync track on the video to align the quality audio track to.