Camcorder with Line Input

12harry

Just a reminder that you may create "trip Hazards" and be liable for any accidents....
So, make sure the  25ft cables are taped ( Gaffer / Duct- Tape) to the floor ( with premises approval). You can buy a rubber-duct thingy that sits almost-flat on the floor...but pricey and only rather short...
An alternative ( for that 25ft), would be wi-fi or a "radio-mic" style transmitter/receiver. Not sure if Bluetooth is OK... 25ft is rather a long unguarded cable.... if anyone else is about. Radio-links were VHF, but now UHF to avoid Taxi-interference... but much more money and you'll need to consider the battery-changing regime.

Terfyn has suggested the cable-version attenuator before as did I. Camcorders are not built for rough-treatment and suppliers of "extra-Kit" really don't care - so long as you pay them money.

Long cable-runs also attract electrical-noise (Others have noted) - and that's why Pros use balanced circuits.... but with conventional signals you really don't have much choice . . . unless a DI-box can be used the "other-way round"  ie  mono-input and Balanced Out..... BUT... then you need another (25ft away by the Camcorder), to convert back AND then you attenuate.... I understand you can get (=Stereo) dual-channel  DI boxes for a little more money....but for that expenditure, if this is a "Regular Gig" then a radio-link might be better..... except ideally, you need a talk-back link for monitoring / control.
Check out the Options and Benefits beforehand.

. . . . . . . Gets complicated, doesn't it?

That Pana camcorder should be just fine; for what you tell us.
BTW few Pros use tape (if any!) - Tape-use stopped over a 2-year period. But may still be used for "Archive" purposes.

GarethWilliams79

That Planet Waves Y-adapter was to 1/4” female (NOT 1/8"), I missed that. Instead I got a cheap one, apparently unbranded from Amazon for £2.16 sold by from kenable_ltd. This is to 1/8” female, presumably the same as the SiYear one you tried to show me. I should have everything now. I’ve ordered all the cables and the video camera.

However, according to this video on YouTube on the HC-V770 [Panasonic HC-V770: Full HD & Mic Input. 2018 review & test. by fredintheshed1] you don’t need the attenuator, which is good news! He recons you can just adjust the external mic settings with a built in manual mic gain which you can turn right down (he had it at -33 I think) to take a line level and he’s using exactly the same mixer as me. Xenyx 802, what an amazing coincidence! (this is at 10.30 on the video) so I have got a 3.5mm Stereo Jack Plug to two x 6.35mm Mono Jack Plugs Y-adapter too, so I can try the same set up without the Movo. He seems to be doing it with a single cable but that wouldn’t be long enough for my use.

This all great news anyway, and answers the OP’s question on this thread. Movo Shmovo! SESCOM ShmESCOM! You can apparently just run a line signal straight into this video camera, and it’s only £345 from Jessops!

GarethWilliams79

Thanks 12 Harry, I might be able to get away with shorter than 25ft cables. I might be able to do it with 10ft, the Y adapter with the male 1/8” jack for the camera (without the Movo) is 1.2 metres, and you can get a 2 metre version, so maybe I can reduce electrical noise by getting shorter male to female 1/4” cables (the ones I've just ordered are 6 metre). I will look into that later.

This set up is mainly intended to be used in a practice room, so trip hazard won’t be a problem but if I try to use it to film a gig that would be a massive issue. You would probably have to do it with Radio-links, or run the cables on the ceiling, or like you said tape the cables on the floor, but then they would still have to skirt round the area where anybody stands or walks, and then either way you would need really long cables! I did think about filming gigs with this method but I don’t think that would be practical now you’ve raised that issue.

I’ll keep it to the practice room I think! Thanks again for your help.

Terfyn

You can always give it a try - I'm not that brave Start with everything set to zero and use headphones on the camera.
If you are going to do a lot of this, I suggest you buy an audio recorder (with or without built in mics) and record near the players. You can then run a simple lead to the camera to record a sync track on the video.
The Tascam DR-60D I bought is (IMO) brilliant, it will take line in direct from your Behringer and supply you with a mic output for your 770. Like you, I had decent mics begging to be used (the Behringer C-2 matched pair) and I bought the C-3 so I could try mid/side recording. (which is why I didn't go for the more obvious Zoom or handheld Tascams)
Apart from sets of XLR leads of varying length I added an AUKEY 5,000 mAh power pack to support the use of 48V Phantom Power, using the DR-60D with PP and without additional power flattens the four AA on board batteries in no time. I have even recorded from the keyboards and the TV. The recorder uses SD cards and will record in WAV or BWF format so can be downloaded directly into my video editor. And the box is so small it is easily portable - I like it

GarethWilliams79

Thanks Terfyn. You advised me to get the Movo didn’t you? Anyway, I will use the headphones on the camera as a guide but I think it will be trial and error getting it to the preferred level. If there is an audio monitor on the camera that would be useful with the green, yellow, red system like on the mixer. Basically I want it in the yellow but not in the red which will distort the sound.

I’ll let you know how I get on with and without the Movo when all the gear arrives.

The Tascam DR-60D sounds like a good solution too. I will obviously try the methodology using the gear I have just bought first and may move on to the DR-60D method in the future. Presumably it takes two 1/4” mono jacks (male into female) from the mixer to the DR-60D, and then the lead from the DR-60D to the video camera comes with the DR-60D?

The problem with it for me is if the DR-60D needs batteries or another plug to the mains supply. Batteries will be more hassle and another plug is something I could do without if I can help it. Sounds easier to just run the mixer to the camera directly with or without the Movo. Thanks again for all your help and advice. I’ll keep this thread posted on the results.

dosdan

This depends on the design of the camera's mic input circuit. Some designs have a gain stage (preamp) before the attenuator (better noise performance). So with a strong signal it's possible to overload the preamp stage before the signal reaches the attenuator.

Same if the level control is done in the digital domain. The signal arrives in the analogue domain and may have some analogue gain applied first (to improve nose performance) before the A-to-D conversion. So you can still clip the analogue preamp stage.

With the attenuation at the very input, this is better at handling large input signals.

But in designs like in these cameras, the attenuation is done on-chip, so it's probably part of the gain-setting circuitry of the input stage. With an audio signal generator and an audio millivoltmeter you can easily determine the mic input clipping level. It's easy to tell by ear when a sine wave clips.  Unfortunately all my gear is packed away.

Another way is to use the mixer's headphone output which usually has a separate level control associated with it. Disadvantages:
Sending a lower-level signal down the cable, so more chance for any up hum picked up in the cable to be noticeable.Mixer operator can't monitor with phones.Some headphone amp circuits may have a lower SNR than via the Rec Out.An 1/4" stereo plug adaptor.Any EQ to correct for PA speaker/room anomalies will be included. (There may be a switch to bypass the EQ when monitoring.) With the Rec Out, this should not be EQed. Not sure about Line Out (probably EQed).Dan.

Terfyn

Yes Well the camera level meters are fairly simplistic just a bar level system. The camera has an Auto and an AGC setting which should lop off any overload. As Dan says, sending a low level signal from the mixer could induce hum but the headphones out seems to be the better option, The Movo will act as a safety link between the Behringer and the camera and allow you to supply a signal at Line level up to the camera.
Batteries: All the kit you are getting (and may get with the DR-60D) is 5V USB based for a power supply. This means that you can run the camera from the (supplied) mains charger which has a USB output or any other USB source (Example - in the car using a 12V to 5V USB plug). This is why I have those phone recharge power packs to support my cameras and DR-60D. In my case I have two AUKEY 20,000 mAh units and tiny 5,000 mAh one stuck with Velcro on the battery cover door of the DR-60D. It is good because I never need to buy Panasonic batteries for my camera and can recharge the supplied one at any time or anywhere using these power packs. You will run the 770 from the mains charger but when you go on your hols, a power pack will recharge your phones, camera and any other 5V USB chargable kit.
The DR-60D runs fine on the internal AA battery pack for any recording not needing the Phantom Power. It will supply 48V PP but tends to use up the AA batteries very quickly when PP is switched on. Hence the additional power pack.
The inputs on the DR-60D are the XLR/TS combined sockets for channel 1 & 2 and a stereo 3.5mm for channels 3 & 4. Channels 1 & 2 can be switched "Line - Mic -  Mic Phantom Power" Channels 3 & 4 have a switchable 2V to run electret tie-clip mics and these channels will also take Line. There are four switched levels of gain plus a variable level control on the front panel.
The DR-60D has three main outputs (all 3.5mm stereo sockets) Headphones, Line Out and a Low Level Line Out for the camera mic socket. I have to supply the connecting lead to the camera.

GarethWilliams79

I was intending to try this out today but I’ve run into a problem with the Panasonic HC-V770 set up. I am just about to start a new thread (called Using the Panasonic HC-V770) and would be grateful for any help on it. Then I can start recording some video/audio and post the results on this thread. Many thanks.

GarethWilliams79

Because I had a practice today and it was already booked in, and it was before my SD card for my new HC-V770 had arrived, I thought I would try out recording from the mixer into my Panasonic NV-GS280 mini DV camera using the Movo attenuator. Um …   This had DISASTROUS results! The sound was absolutely diabolical. I might have been sending from the mixer a shade strong but it can’t have been that that caused these results. The 6 metre of cable from the mixer to the Movo could have added some more distortion as well, but either way it was an absolute disaster.

The NV-GS280 has no audio input controls to my knowledge so it was totally up to the Movo to convert to the right level for the mic input. I think it must have been totally over loaded. There is really bad distortion throughout, you can’t even tell when the guitar distortion is on and when it’s off! and my voice sounds like a demented robot. I’m not exactly Elton John at the best of times but this recording has made me sound diabolical.

Anyway, I will try it with the HC-V770 tomorrow in my house and without the 6 metre of cable, because my SD card arrived today. I’ll try it without the Movo first and see how that goes. That will just be a line signal straight into the camera with the mic gain turned right down.

Terfyn

Oh dear. Did you try the NV-GS280 with a direct input? Was the sound overload or distortion? Was it the headphone out you were using? The headphone out seems to be the lowest output and has the volume control on the desk.
I am sorry you have had this experience. I guess more experimentation is needed. On paper the Movo has the same spec as the SESCOM I am using.

I am just adding this comment from the Amazon site:-
This cable fixed a problem I've had for a long time. I shoot videos for a lot of bands and stand-up comedians, I needed to get audio off a mixer, and go wireless to my Canon Vixia hf g40 camcorder. This did the trick, using my Audio-Technica PRO 88W-R35 Wireless Lavalier System. I was able to do a test, and send audio from my Behringer 1832usb mixers Headphone jack and the tape out jacks, and receive it wireless into my Canon camcorder with no noise.
So in theory it will do the job