New Nikon Full Frame Mirrorless

Johnmcl7

Panasonic have a very good name in the pro market for video and if anything I'd say they're doing better with the pro market and their GH series than they are in the consumer market with the other micro 4/3 cameras.  It does make sense for Panasonic to make a FF mirrorless assuming it would essentially be a larger sensor version of the GH series as the other FF mirrorless cameras while offering solid video performance don't have the same focus on it the way the GH's do.  I know there's the A7s series but Sony seem to have lost interest in it.

From reading the various Nikon reviews it's clear Nikon have very much aimed at matching the Sony A7III and the A7RIII (I know that's what it appears at a first glance but thought there would be more difference when examined closely) which seems odd, I know Nikon have the stronger name but would have thought trying to differentiate them a bit more would have made sense.

I will admit I was being swayed to the Nikon Z series on reading all the articles about them but realised I'd just be using my F-mount lenses on a slightly smaller body which would be pointless.  I'm really liking the RX1R at the moment so giving serious thought to spending the money I have tentatively set aside for a FF mirrorless system on getting an RX1RII instead.

snerkler

How’re you finding being limited to 35mm on the RX1? I’m contemplating getting the original X100 but I’m so used to using zooms now I’m not sure how I’d get on going back to one focal length

Johnmcl7

I'd say I'm very much a zoom person as I primarily use the 28-300mm on the D750 and the 18-200mm, to begin with I struggled with the 35mm as not only is it fixed but it's a bit of an odd focal length as it's neither wide nor normal which are the two focal lengths I'm used to shooting with.  Also while I know it's a FF sensor when initially shooting with it the small size of the camera body makes it feel like a 1in sensor in there with a limiting 35mm lens.  However I've quickly come to love the output from it and can put up with the 35mm limitation as it's just such a small camera, it's not pocket sized like the RX100 but it's still very small and light particularly after a day of lugging the D750 around.

That's why my interest in FF mirrorless is something small as I like the idea of something compact with a wide, normal and portrait set of prime lenses particularly as Sony and Nikon offer onboard IS.  But then when you get to that point I guess a lot of the compact size has been lost anyway and I'd be as well with the D750 and a zoom lens.

snerkler

My reasoning for looking is that I'm losing my mojo for photography and kind of want to get back to basics. I do keep thinking about using my OM1 but film and processing will get costly. The Fuji X100 looks like it goes back to basics in that it has almost like a split prism type focussing option, manual controls etc, and of course going back more to SLR size and shape. Also it has the bayer sensor rather than their later XTrans (which I don't like the rendering of), but it's just the focal length restriction that worries me. I know with this camera you can get adapters with no apparent loss of IQ so you can make it 28mm eq or 50mm eq, but it's extra faff again.

I might go out with my OM1 and see how I get on with one focal length (albeit 50mm) and see how I get on If I like it I can look at the X100. The RX1 is too pricey for me

snerkler

So I've just got back from Harrisons where they had the Z7, 24-70mm, 35mm and adapter to try out. I didn't give the camera a full test as I couldn't go outside and use it, neither did I try out tracking or burst mode, but here's my thoughts.


Ergonomics

OK lets get this out of the way first, it's the best mirrorless I've held in terms of comfort and grip, even better than my beloved EM1. Plenty of room between the grip and lens, probably even enough to be able to wear certain gloves. Button and dial placement is good on the whole, although some of it I don't like as much as their DSLRs. For example, AF modes, Drive modes and metering are accessed via menus, primarily the i button. Talking of the i button, when you press this the menu is now very Sony-esque, bringing up 2 rows of 5 or 6 functions, each assignable and each can be pressed via the touchscreen. I'm not sure if you can set up function buttons to press and the rotate the control dials to change things like AF mode etc, if you can this will feel much more Nikon and less Sony. I like the quick access to these function that I have now and I hope you can set up the Zeds to be similar.

Whilst I said the ergonomics were the best I've used on a mirrorless it's still not as comfortable as my D850. The main reason for this is my pinky finger, there's nowhere for it and so it wraps under the camera body. Not a big deal with the 24-70mm f4 or 35mm (after all I'm used to doing this with my EM1) but when I put my 24-70mm f2.8 with adapter all of a sudden it didn't feel as comfortable. Not bad, just not as good as my D850, and enough for me to notice it. I do wonder how it would feel with the 70-200mm f2.8 or even something like a 150-600mm. I know you tend to balance it holding the lens, but I do still like to have a sturdy grip on the camera and having my pinky finger hanging underneath it just doesn't feel quite as sturdy. All that being said, I think my pinky finger used to sit under the body with my D750 as well (why is my memory so bad that I can't remember for sure) and I managed OK with that I wonder what it would feel like going back to the D750 now after having had the D850 for a while :thinking:  I would question how comfortable the Z7 would be with a grip, I know when I put the grip on the A7Riii my pinky fouled up against the actual grip part of the battery grip so would imagine this would happen with the Z7 too.


Build quality

Felt pretty good tbh, nothing to complain about. Felt sturdy, all the buttons and dials felt good, no mushiness or anything like that, all very precise. EVF looked every bit as good as the A7RIII (ie fantastic) and the LCD was equally crisp. I didn't notice any EVF lag as I was moving the camera around, although I didn't do any specific panning tests.

The lenses are strange ones. They were light, which initially gave the impression that they aren't well built but in reality they are imo. Zoom ring on the 24-70mm was nice and smooth and precise, as was the focus ring. It's just hard not to confuse lightness with lack of quality. If you can get past that I think you'll realise that the quality is very good. However, is the 24-70mm f4 £1000 good? Not for me, but then camera/lens prices baffle me these days anyway   One thing that I didn't like about the 24-70mm f4 was that it 'locks away'. In order to fully collapse the lens you have to go beyond 24mm and it then locks, to the able to use the lens you have to first rotate it out of the lock position. I know there are other lenses like this and a lot of people don't mind it and get used to it, I just found it a bit odd.


Autofocus

I should first point out that this was tried in store where light wasn't great, all artificial lighting although did appear relatively bright. I first tried this with the 24-70mm f4 and AF-S felt very snappy, even going from near to far. AF-C was similarly snappy although on odd occasions there was the tiniest hint of it hunting, although very quick hunting and not like the pedestrian back and forth hunting you get with Nikon DSLR liveview. It is minor, and something I saw with the A7R3 (also tried in store with similar lighting) and something I see A LOT with my EM1 in AF-C.

Next up I tried my 24-70mm f2.8 via the adapter. AF-S was fast although not as fast as when using it on my D850. I did try it on my D850 after as I thought it might be the poor light, but on the D850 AF was INSTANT. On the Z7 is felt ever so slightly tardy, especially going from near to far, and also there was a little more hunting/hesitation in AF-C than when using the 24-70mm f4. Again, in no way horrendous and for everyday use more than fast enough (probably as fast as my EM1 or maybe a teeny tiny smidge faster, I'd have to test both side by side to know for sure), however there was enough difference between using the 24-70mm f2.8 on the Z7 compared to my D850 for me to notice it.



All in all it felt a very nice camera, and on the whole it's not a bad effort from Nikon. However, it is difficult to see past the £3500 price tag, especially when you compare the specs etc to the Sonys. Also, it's not good enough yet to make me want to move from DSLR, and it has made me question whether it will ever be. Not due to the performance as I know this will match and surpass DSLR at some point. But as long as I keep using the big heavy lenses such as the 70-200mm f2.8 and 150-600mm the DSLR just feels better to hold. For prime users and lighter zooms I think mirrorless will be a no brainer soon.  I'd be interested to try the Canon EOS R out as I believe that's a touch bigger.

doug56hl

Did you try autofocus at lower apertures like F8/F11 with AF-C? If so, any difference in focus speed/accuracy? I've been reading that, like the Sony's, the Z6/7 autofocuses closed down with AF-C (after the initial focus wide open). An issue on something like the Tamron 150-600 where the lens isn't great wide open at the far end of the zoom range so smaller apertures are more likely to be used.

snerkler

No sorry I didn't, the smallest aperture was F4.