Grenfell Tower Culpability Thread.

Enki

Grenfell Tower incident the consequence of Austerity ideology, low tax base the reduction in Legal aid etc, The so called not for profit companies and other private entities in the trough of public money, has unintentionally come together and burnt and choked people to their deaths.  And the residents knew there was significant risk of this happening to them. Shocking...

Pacifico

the proposed legislation wouldnt cover Council owned properties, only private sector ones - so not relevant in this case

tapzilla2k

More information about the cladding -
Cladding for Grenfell Tower was cheaper, more flammable option

Wardy257

Background on the reasons for the new cladding and windows.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-grenfell-tower-fire-and-the-daily-mails-green-targets-claim?utm_content=buffer72dc2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

IronGiant

I think the cost of the refurbishment was £10 million?  I wonder how much they saved by going for the cheaper option?, probably a tiny fraction .

Edit: link above suggests a mere £5000 )

Regulations in other countries preclude the use of such materials in buildings above a certain height or at all. Regulations that have been in place since the 80s in Germany   If we want to apportion blame I'd be looking at why our fire regulations are lagging so far behind other countries.

Wardy257

KCTMO was started in 1996 long before Austerity came in and not long before New Labour came to power.

Not sure how Legal Aid stops fire from spreading?

tapzilla2k

Inquests are not constrained by terms of reference set by a minister for Public Inquiries. The Inquest into the 2009 tower block fire in Southwark, pretty much discovered what the causes of that fire were, recommendations made. Ministers have sat on the report for at least 4 years.

What do I want ? A Prime Minister that doesn't hide away from the public or ignores what people have to say. Kahn didn't have to do what he did last night in facing angry locals but he did it anyway.

No, May getting first hand knowledge of what the survivors and families are going through. I couldn't care less if was shown on camera or not.





[url=/proxy.php?link=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown/6111097/Gordon-Brown-ambushed-by-soldier-over-tax.html&hash=e14586845886d7abb27bdcbdc7c837da][/url]I'm aware of that possibility. But If they were seriously lacking in anything, the press would have got hold of that information and reported on it.

I've actually kept my anger in check and I'm not going to engage with you about a topic we've gone over many times before in other threads. I did live in a block of flats (not a tower block) for a short while when I was younger, so this hit home somewhat.  

Perception is key, if you get that wrong then people won't have any confidence in the findings made. Leading to potential trouble down the line.

She was likely briefed on the logistics and scale of the operation. I think the point your missing is she visited in a controlled way and did not bother to meet the residents. That has got people's backs up even more. She could have defused that last night and we'd not be having this discussion now.

EarthRod

I agree.

Successive governments over the last 30 years need to examine their collective conscience over this.

IronGiant

To be fair to enki, I think it's been mentioned in the press that the Residents have failed to bring legal proceedings against the landlords in the past due to a lack of funds.  Whether that's pertinent to the current tragedy, I'm not sure, but it might be.

rancidpunk

Yes and no, depending on the original specification. If there was a more fire resistant cladding on the original spec, and this has been ignored as opposed to being accepted as equal or approved, then the culpability may end up elsewhere.