Syria- Is it time we re-assessed who we support?

Cliff

You don't mince words.
When Nato wanted to extend to east, it suited us to have Turkey as a member.
But, now, as you say, Turkey is supporting IS.

We should remind ourselves that we, and Russia have a common enemy and that is IS.
Turkey is not with us.

weaponx031277

Couple of years down the line Turkey is going to have a lot of problems with both Islamic insurqency and the Kurds. Could be another country that faces the prospect of implosion. Not got a lot of sympathy for them tbh after backing something like IS in order to try and get rid of Assad. Yesterdays actions in shooting that Russian jet down has set an incredibly dangerous precident and im pretty sure the first thing the Russians will be doing will be to hammer the Turkman rebels. I just wonder if they do that if Turkey will react further?

tapzilla2k

Cameron is the one whose Grandstanding. We need to have a proper plan in place before we go into Syria. As things stand having more war planes buzzing around Syria without a plan and Turkey firmly put in it's place is a recipe for disaster. What Corbyn has got right is the need to have a proper plan for Syria (and Iraq) before we rush into things. Otherwise we repeat the mistakes of the Iraq war.

It was in Turkish airspace for about 10 seconds, Turkey is well known for entering Greek air space quite often, not that we in the West pay much attention to it. So it seems like an attempt to stop Russia from attacking it's allies in Syria. Russia can of course inflict a lot of Economic damage to Turkey without needing to escalate things in the military sense.

Turkey has been backing various jihad groups since 2011, all part of Erdogan's plan to erode Ataturk's secular revolution in Turkey probably. I think he came out yesterday saying he didn't want an escalation with Russia, perhaps he wasn't expecting Putin to react as he did with the backstabbing comments. Which is true, when you see that Turkey is the country that's enabled IS to sell it's stolen oil, allowed the free flow of refugees into Europe and so on.

I think it's time Erdogan faced some consequences for his actions. One way or another, I think Putin will get what he wants in Syria.

Tbh given how Turkey is behaving and how much Putin hates NATO, it might be worse to kick Turkey out of NATO. But that would I think require Obama to get his backside and do something.

Turkey hasn't been with us for a long while now, it's about time our leaders woke up to that fact. You can probably argue like Putin has that Turkey is directly responsible for the rise of ISIS and it's terrorist attacks across the globe.

Now I do think Putin was grandstanding for his domestic audience yesterday, but if Turkey shoots down more Russian fighter jets then I expect Putin will move to using some of Russia's more deadlier bombs, that have a similar effect to a nuclear weapon destructive power has on the rebels near the Turkish border. I would hope Turkey backs off as Putin is unpredictable and I wouldn't rule out Russia dropping small tactical nuclear weapons as a show of power. But that's if things go really pearshaped.

Fred Quimby

Heaven (no pun intended) help any British soldier who shoots dead a member of this heap of scum.  25 years in Goal for murder.  (He had his hands up)  (he wasn't looking) (He said sorry) etc etc etc.

Member 581642

I assume you are referring to the Marine that shot a wounded unarmed Taliban fighter , dont know of any cases where soldiers following the rules of engagement (and the Geneva convention) has been convicted of murder and sent to Jail.

tapzilla2k

It's only natural to support our troops to the hilt, but if something has gone awry then we have to have trust in the Justice system to make the right verdict based on the evidence. The case that the poster might be referring to has some question marks hanging over it.

I don't expect ISIS will be able to withstand well trained armies that have control of the air i.e. I expect it will go the same way as the US fight against insurgents in Iraq did. The utterly committed ISIS fighters will fling themselves into the fray hoping for death, while the ones with a sense of self preservation would use the chaos to try and melt away in the chaos. It would likely take a long while to reach the point of breaking ISIS though. I don't think it would be over in a matter of weeks or months.

weaponx031277

Tapzilla i doubt Russia would use Nukes in Syria under any cirumstances. Thermobaric weapons yes, and if they do i know the West will slam them for there use. On the flip side though America has used them in Afghanistan and im pretty sure the UK has them in there arsenal.

What your talking about troop wise to get rid of IS out of Syria and Irag is probably over 150000  soldiers and a considerable period of time to root them out. Even then theres no guarantee of sucess and i imagine the casualties, cost and political damage would be too much for any government to want to take on. Theres also the very real risk that it could make the situation worse and be an even bigger magnet to jihadists.

Fred Quimby

I don't think the Russians will lose any sleep over the opinions of forum members, here, their or anywhere regarding the brutal murder of two heroic pilots, gunned down and probably ready to surrender.

They will blast the crap out of everything.

Fred Quimby

That point was solidified when during a football match between Greece and Turkey the Turks were requested to hold a minutes silence for those murdered in Paris.

Throughout the whole minute the Turkish fans booed.

Politicians can say what they like,but at grass roots level, the turks despise us.   They want in the EU, for money and the fact they can do a Cuba, that is empty their prisons and point the miscreants in the direction of the west, Namely us.

Fred Quimby

Terrorists do not acknowledge the Geneva Convention.  I have this nightmare that any ground troops will be issued with the Ulster Yellow card.  You must give a warning before you open fire.

The mind boggles.  The number of British troops killed in these actions so that Politicians can sleep at night whilst holding the moral high ground.