Scotland Bans Smacking

EarthRod

Gosh, no hyperbole: you didn't mention beatings, donkeys or thinking of your wife or children as property. After all, this thread is about the recent ban smacking children in Scotland.

I have similar views to yours. The smack on the leg is a last resort and it does the trick.

In total I smacked my children 3 times in a 'wait until your father gets home' scenario and it hurt me more than it hurt them. The tears dry, the lesson learnt, all is forgotten and family life moves on. Part of the responsibilities of being a husband and a father.

You are so right in saying 'no one wants to smack their child', I certainly hated doing it.

The easy way out is not to smack. So this new Scottish law makes things easier for the parents in Scotland, but also could lead to spoiling the child.

Aj33

Sorry, I shall remember this in future. Must have been the 7 or so pints talking!

....everyone should get the belt out and go to town on these pesky kids!!

doug56hl

For a period of time: take away their phone or tablet, stop them using social media, remove the TV from their bedroom, no more playing video games etc. Lots of non physical forms of punishment available if necessary. Or, as the americans say, 'you are grounded'.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"

mcbainne

Never ceases to amaze me when something like this is discussed and all the appologists for violence against children crawl out from the woodwork. It was a similar level of ridiculousness when the SNP introduced the minimum pricing for alcohol, heaven forbid the party of government could look at problems within a country and put legislation in place to limit their effects or help erradicate them

Aj33

and if they don’t work?

In the road crossing scenario I don’t see how any of those would help. Children are very rarely able to comprehend delayed gratification or punishment. They tend to live in the moment.


I would hardly call a light slap on the back of the legs violence. If it does escalate or go beyond reasonable then there are already laws in place.

A problem I notice (not necessarily here) with this discussion is an underlying contempt and assumption on the part of the anti-smacking side that those opposed (NOT for smacking) to banning smacking are all rabid violent child beating psychopaths. In addition that we won’t try all the methods outlined above first.

Always assume that the person you are debating is coming at this from a place of good and not just resort to name calling (I refer to calling anyone who smacks incompetent). It’s not helpful.

Again my thoughts. Take ‘em or leave them.

doug56hl

Hang on there. I was very much and still am against alcohol minimum pricing. It is using collective 'punishment' against the majority to deal with the problem of minority. While the current £0.50 per unit has had a minimal affect on me so far (around £100 per year) the lack of success of the measure has seen calls for it to be increased to £0.75 or £1 or even higher. The SNP has a dour side which veers close to the wee frees at times and some of them I feel would be happy to see Norwegian levels of the price of alcohol.

I used to vote SNP until the debacle of them promising local income tax to replace council tax, having it in their manifesto and thus fighting an election with it, and then once in power saying well actually we can't do that. Maybe they should have determined that before the event. Fool me once shame on you...

The SNP for me has gone beyond three strikes and you're out and I will only vote for them as a tactical measure to keep another party even more unpalatable to me from gaining a seat.

Anyway to get back on topic there is research that the spare the rod and spoil the child approach is flawed and can lead to psychological problems later in life. This from the USA

Recent surveys show that 24 percent of one-year-old children and 33 percent of 3-year-olds are spanked in a given month, with boys being more likely in general to experience physical discipline than girls.  

But what are the long-term consequences of using corporal punishment, especially in young children? While there has been extensive research looking at how physical discipline affects children, the results have usually been inconclusive. Still, the general consensus appears to be that corporal punishment can lead to later problems, including aggressive behavior and acting-out episodes that can occur in children as young as two or three years of age.

As expected based on previous research, children who were slapped or spanked at the age of two were more likely to show later problems with aggression and attention.
Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child?

doug56hl

In the scenario you outline there would seem to be two different options: grab/restrain the child to stop them dashing out in front of traffic or grab/restrain the child to give them a smack.

The first certainly works. I'd add that people shouldn't let an untrained dog out unrestrained in traffic so why allow a child? Toddler reins are widely available. Threatening to put a child who has outgrown them back into reins would seem an effective non violent form of conditioning.
"But I'm a big boy now"
"Well act like one then"
The laws of 57 countries around the world would disagree with you.  What you may be missing is the fine line between reasonable and unreasonable. There would always be a grey area where they meet. That has now been removed as there is no longer a legal defence of reasonable, appropriate or justified.
I didn't resort to name calling.  I also didn't say the word smack (or rather the quote I gave from Isaac Asimov didn't).  After all, didn't you claim that a light slap on the back of the legs isn't violence....

Aj33

I think to suggest that someone in this specific scenario is grabbing the child with any other view than to stop the child being hurt is absurd. It’s also not just about stopping them but stopping them from doing it in the future. Once again a light smack should be the last resort after multiple other options as previously outlined.

I agree, people should but they don't. I also agree if you have a child who is likely to reins are a good option. But I don’t agree that any of these mean the option of smacking should be removed.

well based on UN numbers of 195 countries that means 138 would appear to agree with me. Not that either mine or your assertion mean much.
you are correct you didn’t. You did however imply by ending your message as such. I did indeed and still do claim that a light smack is not violence as is being asserted in this thread. However for me to equate the two together and infer as I did is reasonable based on the multiple counts of you stating that it is violence and I was replying to you.

At this point I think I am done with this thread. Always nice to talk things through.

EarthRod

Well, my children are in their late 30s now and doing very well as adults so this smack law doesn't concern me or my grandchildren, also I don't live in Scotland.

So, I too am out.

doug56hl

No, I merely meant grabbing the child to stop them and then soon afterward smacking as a deterrant to stop future occurances. Operant conditioning requires the stimulus and the punishment or reward to be close together in time for it to be effective.

So a non violent alternative could be proactive training and 'show me how you should cross the road' and then when the task is correctly done follow up with a reward/treat. The carrot not the stick approach.
In addition to the 57 countries which already have the ban, another 55 are committed to implementing it. Committed states | Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children So that will soon be only 83 countries agree with you. The anti smacking legislation stems from the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child which only the USA has not ratified.