The Difficult Conversation has to start.

Cliff

After last night's London Bridge attack- which is covered in GC- the Prime minister has said
"We cannot and must not pretend that things can continue as they are."

She said that we are now going to have difficult conversations. We have been too tolerant. We already have 3000 potential extremists on watch list but it looks like these attacks are on the increase.
So what sensible measures do we need to take.
I have already suggested elsewhere that Jihadists returning from an IS zone should not be allowed back. Even if they have a British passport (they should stay in Islamic State). That would have prevented the Manchester attack.
I would also ban foreign funding for mosques and madrassas, and visiting Immams.
As I said, these are going to be difficult measures, but we cannot carry on as normal when the attacks are on the increase.

faiz0

You might want to look at the wording of the thread!

Agree with most of what you've said there, in particular not allowing anyone back in from an IS zone.

IronGiant

I've edited the thread title to what I assume Cliff intended.   As for the Manchester attack I didn't think he was a returning Jihadist was he? Unless he was closely followed it would have seemed he was simply visiting family in Libya wouldn't it?

krish

I'm not really sure what's 'difficult' about this conversation. Agree with @Cliff's points ... Although instead of turning returning jihadis back round, surely we want to get intel off them don't we?

With the US, I believe when they've suddenly flagged and detained a jihadi, usually as a result of good inter-agency cooperation, they then have everybody patched into the interrogation ... so the detainee might reveal locations, possibly inadvertently, then drone operators and CIA agents/assets in country could confirm in real time and subsequent take down actions executed.

Cliff

His family were religious extremists initially against Gadaffi and that is why they sought asylum in the UK. Subsequently, that part of Libya has become an IS friendly province. And the fight in that country is still on going.
There were reports that the bomber travelled to Syria but I'm not sure if that has been verified. But anyone visiting Libya, frequently and who is a danger to us should be banned from returning. He was already on the watch list, so assumed dangerous, and had the ban been in place, Manchester would not have happened.

apolloa

It's not a difficult conversation at all, it's just one that no political party in the UK will have as it may mean lost votes.
This morning an ex metropolitan high ranking officer on Sky news stated May was flat out lying over her increase in security services, how these extra armed Police officers are ones who have had their holidays cancelled and their shifts extended to 16 hours, he also said the extra people May claims the security services have are actually CID officers they've told to help out, no new man power at all, just shifting what's their already round. All politicians do is spin and lie and May is a great talker. These attacks will just continue, nothing will be allowed to change. I mean getting rid of all Shira laws in this country would be a start.. but I can not even imagine the backlash and riots that would be allowed to happen.. remember we are not changing the EU Human Rights act for at least another 7 years.

Rasczak

I disagree - we should take responsibility for our own people. If they have committed terrorist acts or illegally participated in foreign wars, there are crimes already on the statute book to deal with that. Dumping our garbage on others is never the answer.

I would also say the nature and tone of your post suggests the terrorists have beaten you. They want to harm our quality of life. They want to disrupt our democracy. This an ideological war and free, western values will win in the end. Throwing out our values will not save lives, will sacrifice our identity and allow the terrorists to win. Just keep calm and carry on.

Cliff

Firstly, your first point is on the money. No political party wants to upset, Muslim voters. Therefore, it becomes difficult as it may be seen as a restriction on normal peaceful families

As for police resources, that is a point, but we need to get to stop these attacks well before the idea is hatched.

Cliff

Nice one! I hope you believe that yourself and are not preaching to others. Try telling those families affected last night, that we should carry on as normal and accept the increase in attacts. Make no mistake, and I think you are way off the mark, the usual "carry on as usual -we will not be beaten" is all very well but we need a new approach to tackling the problem.  Yes, as people in London, we may carry on as usual but to suggest the authorities carry on as usual is irresponsible in the extreme.
I don't know what we should do. That is why I opened up the thread. But what I do know is that accepting attacks and carrying on as though it's part of our daily life is not good enough.

Rasczak

There will always be attacks of one description or another. It is the fundamental price of being a liberal democracy. Selling out to the wishes of terrorists will only encourage more terrorism, more attacks.