The Difficult Conversation has to start.

apolloa

But with the cutbacks, nothing will change, the chap On Sky News just repeated what others have stated. And May is the one who has done and is doing those cutbacks.

I see little point discussing it though, because it's not us who need to be discussing the issue, and it's why I don't believe anything will change.

apolloa

Wrong, is the fundamental price of being a weak and greedy democracy that cares little about the people. What did Blair do, gave the IRA exactly what they wanted and pardoned all those IRA members who murdered innocent lives... he gave in to their demands. That's a weak and pathetic democracy not willing to fight for the people's rights!

apolloa

Ah here we go, the first part of the video is May defending her endless cutbacks, and the second half is the interview I mentioned from this morning, he rips May apart.. how can you think anything will change? It won't. Politicians are involved..

tapzilla2k

Says the PM who was Home Sectary and oversaw years of cuts to police numbers (ignore the source of the video, I saw the interview live on Sky News and it's not been changed) -
                                                                https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=538044779919764       


Most of that tolerance has stemmed from the Political class who've avoided engaging in the right areas to identify and stop people from becoming radicalised where possible. These attacks are not new, we are seen as a soft target for various reasons. If anything like this happens in parts of the Country where Police Numbers are thin on the ground, it will be a whole lot worse and it won't be bought under control as quickly as we saw last night. That's the fear plenty of frontline officers share if you look on social media and elsewhere. This is a good place to start Inspector Gadget (@InspGadgetBlogs) on Twitter

I have already suggested elsewhere that Jihadists returning from an IS zone should not be allowed back. Even if they have a British passport (they should stay in Islamic State). That would have prevented the Manchester attack.[/quote]

In which case we need to spend far more on border control and sea patrols. It's pretty easy to get into the UK if you are determined and know where the weak spots are.

As for the Manchester attack ? It appears the Government and MI6 released various Libyan Jihadists from watch lists or court orders and actively helped them fight in Libya and allowed them to return. Warnings about the Bomber were also seemingly ignored.

Anyone who wants to speak in the UK should be vetted properly and rejected if there views are deemed not to be in the public interest. Though perhaps we need a new law to imprison British born Hate Preachers if they incite Terrorism or deport them if they were not born here.

There have been plenty of reports from various sources that describe MI6 not caring about blowback from those Jihadist as in the short term it helped with the goal of toppling Gadaffi, so they were allowed to go to and from the UK to fight in Libya. Might be time we looked at how MI6 has been operating in recent times and see if changes need to be made there.

Cliff

Haven't you noticed an increase in attacks? No one is selling out. But we cannot standby and do nothing. What is acceptable in our free society? One attack an month OK with you ? Or perhaps when it reaches one a week, then you might l get involved in the "difficult conversation", and stop with the Huffington Post quotes.. It is not going away. The attacks are on the increase everywhere and lives are being lost.

Just on a personal note, I was in London yesterday at the Natural History Museum with my wife and two children yesterday. Of course the youngest wanted to see the big Dinosaur (Dippy) and Daddy had to explain that he had been taken down and will be replaced by a whale which is more valid .  My 5 year old didn't agree and was visibly upset... I digress...

My point was about changing our way of life.
If I had said let's go to the museum today or tomorrow-  my wife would say- You are joking !!

Marv

       

                               
Made me think of this,

                                                                                                                                               

Maybe things will change from now on though.

silent ninja

There is no Sharia Law in this country.

The rest of what you said makes sense. May has been in power for 7 years in the Home Office to make us safer. She has utterly failed and now she is distancing herself from blame. "Enough is enough" - wasn't it enough after 7/7? She hasn't done a job since 2010, and nothing will change under her.


Let's not forget ISIS kill more Muslims than anyone else. They are toxic, and liek Al-Qaeda, their very existence is very much due to the power vacuums created by British and American interventions in the Middle East. Every one has been an utter failure. It's political suicide to admit foreign interventions are making us unsafe at home, but anybody with basic common sense can figure that one out.

Rasczak

I guess this last bit of your quote - when our society has become paralysed and unable to conduct normal life, then change is a necessity. I am sorry your family is in that space but, with the greatest respect, I think you are in the minority. The populace of London and Manchester are rolling on - a handful of terrorist attacks irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It is a tragedy for the families that have suffered - but it would be unforgiveable if we curtailed rights and lost who we are as a society as a result. In such circumstances the terrorists would have won.

PS - I agree about the dinosaur and even started a thread on the subject!
One of our Dinosaurs is missing....

tapzilla2k

What we need to do is have a rethink of how we are tackling this, listen to those who are dealing with it on a day to day basis (it does sound like it's been underfunded to the point where they can only monitor so many individuals 24/7) and hold all Politicians to account regardless of them being in or out of Government. They've had the power since 2015 I believe to exclude individuals from London, ban them from owning offensive weapons and it being mandatory for them to check in with the authorities. As far as I know those powers haven't really been used if it all. I think it's not unreasonable to say that May has some serious questions to answer about her role as Home Sectary and as PM. Not blaming her for the demented ideology of the attackers or the attacks. But I believe it's crucial we have a proper debate about everything. Regardless of the Election campaign, I do not think Theresa May has a proper grasp of the problem to keep us safe. She was more or less campaigning for her long held desire to restrict the internet under the guise of fighting Terrorism. We all know that Terrorists who are tech savvy will be using the dark web and customised apps to communicate. That's the other part of all this - How far do we go in terms of security before it curtails freedom - another aim of Jihadists - Attacks cause fear, fear causes loss of freedoms through security measures. It was laid out in one of Osama Bin Laden's diatribes on Jihad.

But I believe the immediate course of action to take is to resolve the wars in Libya and Syria (easier said than done). Which means crushing IS and talking to the various sides to reach a political settlement that will stabilise both countries and then begin reconstruction. That has to be a global initiative. It's not something the UK can do alone.

I think it's natural for your wife to react in that way, her instincts to protect are on show. As for me ? I don't worry about Terrorism, I just get on with life. But I know if I do get caught up in a terror attack it'll be down to sheer dumb luck if I survive or not. I'll not change how I live out of fear of what Terrorists might do. They've already won if you do that.

As for the Election itself ? I know some have said it should be postponed. But I firmly believe that's giving in to the Terrorists. The best act of defiance ? Vote on Thursday and exercise our freedom to choose the path of our democracy. So If you are registered to vote, do so. I don't care who for either.

Cliff

I am certainly not in the minority!  Of course most have no option and we have to go to London to work etc. But every family thinks about the safety of their children. When it comes to a trip to the museum, which is not essential, then I think you would be a foolish man to ask your family to go today. I can just imagine the scenario. Rasczak to wife. We must go to see the museum today otherwise the terrists have won!
Wife to Rasczak.. Fight that battle on your own! Kids are staying home with me today.

PS. It wasn't a coincidence my post wandered on to dinosaurs