VW shares plummet after being caught out.

sergiup

I'm starting to get really peed off with the US and their complete double-standards; GM recalled 2.6 million (!) cars for a fault which was linked to the death of 13 people; and then 1.3 million cars for a potential loss of power steering. Here's one of the many stories.

They were fined something like $35 million for the ignition switch issue.

Doesn't it seem stupidly out of proportion to potentially threaten VW with $18 billion in fines? Oh wait, VW spend far less on lobbying compared to GM - so I guess it's fine to charge them a lot more.

Sloppy Bob

Football, rugby or cricket?

markymark34

Amy thoughts on what this will do to used prices here? Already people saying they will avoid buying vw until this blows over. Maybe an over reaction but such is life.

sergiup

Bring it on - we were thinking of a new car anyway. This doesn't make them any worse for my purposes.

outoftheknow

I gather from that report that the VWs turned on the emission reduction systems during tests and not on the road. It seems to suggest the tested one VW with selective catalytic reduction  and one with a NOx trap. This seems to say that both systems could meet the emissions standards if they were on all the time. Makes sense since that is how the BMW and other cars meet the low NOx emissions set in the U.S. and particularly California.

Early reports suggested VW were selling cars in the U.S. without the almost certainly required NOx reductions system even fitted - and this is what made the authorities suspicious.

As always it will be interesting to see what did and didn't happen. Also the fact the software is on cars in other countries may or may not be an issue. If in the other countries their emission standards don't need Such drastic NOx reduction, it is unlikely the software will do anything under test. Again only the details will clarify what it all actually means outside of the U.S. where the emissions that are tested and limited are say CO2 and particulates and not NOx. These are easier to reduce with simple and cheaper engineering controls in Diesel engines up to the point required current say in Europe.

EndlessWaves

Thousands of deaths caused by 0.2% of the vehicles on the road in the US being not quite as modern as they claim to be?

Yeah, the best diesels seem to return 65mpg  MPG in practice, like Honda's 1.6 in the Civic and the best implementations of Ford-PSA's 1.6 such as in the C4 Cactus.

As far as I can see the best petrols such as Peugeot's 1.2 are just breaking through the 50mpg barrier. There does seem to be a 10-15mpg difference between them.

Obviously there are more petrol hybrids about that can push that higher, but is there any reason to think that a hybrid system benefits a petrol engine more than a diesel?

The 'official' MPG figures are simply calculations done based on the CO2 results so you may as well just look at those as they'll be identical for identical CO2 outputs.

MPG figures in the UK haven't been representative of the product for seven or eight years now for most brands.

Whether they're 'rigged' is a difficult question to answer though. The fact that the models most likely to benefit from high MPG/Low CO2 economically tend to have the biggest exaggeration suggests they may be though.

I bet the folks at those few manufacturers who did set up the cars to produce accurate figures - and have suffered complaints from the press about high running costs as a result - are rubbing their hands in glee right now and I hope their press departments are setting up tests to make the most of the publicity.

EDIT: Does anyone actually know what the limits VW had to obey were? The current European limits of new models for NOx is 0.08g/km for diesel and 0.06g/km for petrol.

Trollslayer

MPG is done on a rolling road in a building, no wind tunnel etc.

outoftheknow

I suspect they were claiming the super duper end of the Californian limits. Beware the units I suspect

Emission Standards: USA: Cars and Light-Duty Trucks—California

They advertised them as clean diesel.

gangzoom

We aren't just talking about MPG ratings and CO2 emission.

I work in a hospital day in and day out. I see people with end-stage (about to die) lung disease nearly every day. The damage caused by smoking, asbestos, paint, coal, silicon, takes DECADES to show up. Once the damage is done, there is no going back, no amount of compensation buys your good health, and dying from not been able to breath is to put it frankly - sad/awful and something I have to see/deal with far too often . The fact its all avoidable makes it even worse. Saving £5 now due to better MPG is almost pointless if the end result is irreversible lung damage 20 years down the line, or even worse, 20 years down the line for your kids.

It takes smoking 25 years to show damage to your lungs, and we know exposure is directly linked to worse outcomes.

The emissions laws have been getting tighter for a reason, because its only now we are starting to see understand the issues around NO and other small particles released by diesel cars. We don't know the longterm side effects yet, but I for one don't enjoy sitting behind a diesel in a traffic jam, and I imagine none on the VW board would like to stand next to one of their ultra-clean diesels in a traffic jam for any length of time!! The smoking and building industry literally got away with murder for years, the same cannot be allowed to happen with the car companies.

What VW had done is nothing sort of showing a complete disregard for long term human health, but instead choosing to chase after profits...Some one at the top sanctioned this course of action, though we may never know exactly who. But VW need to be made an example of, and pursued by the authorities to the full extent of the law, both Civil and criminal. Other car companies have made blunders before but NOT done what VW has...Which is set out and specifically design a system to cheap the system.

Health | Nitrogen Dioxide | US EPA

rousetafarian

My acquaintance in a local VW dealership has been trying to prevent new sales being cancelled all week, she isn't a very happy bunny. Reasons for cancellations on both petrol and diesel models vary from 'tarnished company reputation' to 'I always buy my new cars based on the claimed emissions' - What a crock of soot