Honest opinions appreciated on this proposed Hi-Fi separates system purchase!

oldcootstereo

Having recently gone through the "upgrade" from my many-decades-old hifi, I can empathize with feeling swamped by all the choices, especially once any AV aspects begin to be introduced.  

In no particular order from various posts:
I agree with the OP, buying used is a bigger potential mine-field than buying new.  Especially for gear with complex moving/mechanical parts.  For those on a shorter-replacement cycle, used may be the best way to get higher-spec gear, and the constant shuffle to find the "perfect" combination should be less expensive in the short term.  But for most hifi hobbyists, buying a nearly complete new system is not a frequent event and is a stressful experience... the end result is worth the effort, but not something I'd be welcoming on a monthly, or even yearly basis.  I bought with zero auditions, and am extremely pleased with the result.  Toole was right, buy the best spec amp, and speakers with reasonably flat/wide frequency response, that you can afford.  In most average rooms, careful placement and judicious use of EQ can sweeten most systems.  

One would presume that the amps/drivers/crossovers in powered speakers would be carefully matched to maximize the good points and minimize the bad. Besides, I don't think that until a hobbyist approaches becoming an big$$$ audiophile that the "sonic character" of reasonable quality semiconductor amps will be a major issue.  Yes, perhaps a class D will sound a bit different than a standard AB amp, but at this price point, not the same issue as the expectations out of a 5-figure  rig.  

My cost proportion of amp/speakers/sub was roughly 20/40/40%, totaling about CDN$2,500.

No CD player as we loaded all our CDs into iTunes on our existing computer (our iMac is old enough to have the SuperDrive) and new music purchases mostly online.  No parts to wear, convenient to use over wifi, as the A-S501 (and all the Yams in question) has an optical input (which we feed from an Apple TV2) and a decent DAC.  The preamp end of the A-S801 is probably very similar to the A-S1100 as they are in the next family up from the A-S301/501/701 group, the amp/power supply will be the biggest differences between the 801 and 1100.  Yamaha phono sections are well regarded if you have vinyl.  

There is a lot of myths perpetuated in hifi/audio, and Toole and others debunk a lot of it.  I bought Toole's book and it saved me WAY more than it cost, with a far better end result than if I had just relied on reviews and opinions.  It provides a logical framework to make many audio decisions that often get made on subjective criteria.
Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms, 3rd Edition (Paperback) - Routledge  

Enjoy the trip!

daddy999

Hiya, the MA‘s are that bit more expensive, but I haggled at the same time as buying the amp and got the MA brand stands thrown in for free and a healthy discount of the amp. I bought from a company called Woolacotts in a Cornwall, they are not a true “hifi“ company, but they do deals, work hard for their money and we’re truly helpful, a few ”Hifi shops” should take note. if you want the contact their, let me know, he might be worth a call. Anyway, because the speakers bolt to the stands they are very solid, look great and in terms of sound, I find them really smooth, the bass is tight and controlled, not “flabby” and over taking the music, the mids, highs, and vocals are simply lush. I honestly can‘t believe how good they sound for a ”bookshelf”, I was actually looking at floorstanders, but simply fell in love with the sound of these.

in 35 years of buying Hifi, I never felt the need for a subwoofer, in any system, and if I’m honest, not saying people shouldn’t but sub’s, I simply want to hear music, not the ear splitting low frequencies that my teenage kids seem to adore. I don’t believe the MA’s leave you feeling the need for more bass, however, if that’s the case for some, perhaps the 200’s are better suited to them, but then that’s even more money!

FYI: I have them 10”s from the rear wall and don’t need to use the bass bungs which are supplied at normal, sensible or even “neighbour” annoying volumes.

I totally understand getting it past the wife, the Piano ebony colour made the wife very happy and as the shop saved me so much money, I took her away for a weekend in Brighton..........where I bought a turntable!

good luck in your search.

OstrichAndCobraWine

Alrightee then...so far based upon the many views kindly offered above I'm minded to go for the Yamaha preamp/streamer coupled with a CD transport (I'm thinking Audiolab CDT6000 as my Pioneer CD will be used elsewhere and on the basis of the rave review of this particular product by theaudiophileman) and active speakers (Core 7s might be out of reach budget wise but BM15As and Focal Twin 6s look like strong possibilities). Slowly getting less attached to the idea of a sub seeing as so many of you seem to be getting along just fine without one and I think the cash might just be better put towards the speakers. Second hand is still out, audition will be preferable but difficult as I've only limited time home at Xmas (so I may need to buy blind...yikes!).

I have a concern re the actives. I keep reading that the sound can be quite harsh (and therefore unforgiving over extended listening). I also see many comments that the sweet spot for listening is limited and that the sound changes dramatically if you're not within a few feet of the speakers and if you move around a lot (this'll be an issue for my better half as she'll often be listening in the kitchen/diner to the rear of the area where this equipment will be placed).

Do any owners of actives care to offer an opinion on whether these are actual potential issues if I go this route?

NottsMFC

I recently bought my 1st ever pair of active speakers for my dining area, is a kitchen/diner also. I also sit in there when I work from home.

I absolutely love them & don't find the sound harsh in any way, had them on while working from home all day yesterday & all day so far today & certainly haven't found them fatiguing at all. Love the detail & clarity.

They still put a smile on my face when I am in the kitchen area away from the sweet spot, although the distance would be a max of 4 metres at any time.

Paul7777x

I’ve never heard a pair of ‘harsh’ active speakers.

They are perfectly controlled by having a dedicated power amplifier matched to each individual driver.

Therefore they sound right. The bass control at tiny and huge volumes, and everywhere in between in superb. No flab, no over/under damping and no loss of definition through less than accurate passive crossovers.

There is no sweet spot, except the one created in and by every room and modified by careful positioning (for critical listening). The same as every speaker ever made.

And, because of the impeccable behaviour of the directly controlled drivers, the sound changes much less dramatically when moving around.

And at your budget, the drivers and power amplifier are all going to be first class.

Ps, if you go for the BM15s, it’s hard to imagine you’ll need a sub.

A pair of Dynaudio 9.5 inch drivers, with that kind of power behind them are not at all shy with the bass they can hammer out.

And, even better, the dynamic expression is quite very impressive. Notes start and stop on time, every time; the ease with which good actives follow the dynamic range of good recordings is more than impressive.

I think you’ll be delighted.

OstrichAndCobraWine

@NottsMFC and @Paul7777x - thanks for the replies. I won't lie - I'm still mentally struggling a little bit to divorce myself completely from the 'classic' passive type set up I've been used to for the last 30 odd years. However, I'm determined to make a decision based on solid technical grounds, and not simply succumb to fear of the unfamiliar, so will press on with my study of the active solution.

At present, I do have another question which I hope someone can help with. What wire/cable would I need to connect the speakers to the preamp, and what connections would I use on the back of the preamp?

Ugg10

Preamp (assuming a hifi biased one like the wxa50) will have rca/phono left and right. Now depending on the active speaker they could have any combination of XLR (big round three pin), TRS 1/4” microphone style (like big headphone plugs but mono) or RCA Phono.

Cables for all these combinations are available on Amazon and as these are line signal most cables around the £10-20 for a 3m single speaker wire would be ok. If you want to look for a name then Mogami have a good reputation as do Van Damme.

Examples -
Rca>xlr (need two of these) designacable NYS373-0-VDINBK0300-NC3MXX-B 3m RCA to Male XLR Cable - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments
rca>trs Pseudo Balanced RCA Phono to TRS Jack Lead (PAIR). Van Damme Starquad Cable (3m, Black): Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments
Rca>rca Van Damme Black Ultra Subwoofer Cable 3 Metre Single: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Paul7777x

As above, and I’ve used these for a good while. Well made and even look neat in the black.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Pair 3 Pin Male XLR to Single Male RCA Phono Plug Audio Mic Cables Lead 3m 10ft  | eBay                                                                                                        Active PA Speakers. How do I find the item number or product code?. What if I have not received my order?. Product Code: SSD6312. When will I receive confirmation of my order?. Can I reserve item(s) that I intend to buy later?.                                                                                                                                                                                                        www.ebay.co.uk

OstrichAndCobraWine

Thanks @Ugg10 and @Paul7777x for the clarification on the connections.

Probably going to go quiet on this for a while now as I think the next obvious step will be to organise a demo of the two monitors I'm looking at (Dynaudio BM15A and Focal Twin 6BE).

As things currently stand, I'm flying into London on 20 December. I see that there's a pro audio place in Tooting (KMR) which has both of these products. I'm going to see if they'll arrange a demo for me on the same morning and, if they can, I'll head straight there from the airport. After that, I see there's a Richer Sounds a couple of miles away - I'll see if I can drop in and take a look at the WXC-50 pre-amp and the CDT 6000A transport. Probably be knackered after 18 hours of travelling, but I gotta find out one way or another for myself if the active route is a viable one for me.

Really grateful for all the advice I've been given on this from everyone to date - it's been an education.

Timbo21

I buy both. I would say amps & speakers are safe to buy second hand. Items like CD players / anything with a disc drive is potentially more problematic.

I used to sell hifi/AV when I was in between careers. It’s REALLY hard for hifi/AV retailers the last decades. It’s completely unfair to refer to them as a ‘cartel’. Without new goods you’d have no second hand. Plus, I don’t know many other high street items you can negotiate between 5-20% discount, mainly because they are desperate.

There is practically zilch profit in a TV. Hifi such as amps & speakers have much better margin, but they sell far fewer. Certain brands like Sony & Pioneer offer poorer margins too.